11 - Lee Read - Swim School UK

We're back in the studio with Lee Read!

Join James Brooker of LoveAdmin in a strategic session with Lee, founder of Swim School UK, on this episode of the Steps2Success Podcast. Discover the transformative power of structured administration as Lee shares his journey of scaling his business from a concept to a 600-member swim school. 

This episode dives into the challenges and solutions of delegating administrative duties effectively, illustrating how proper admin support can free up a business owner to focus on growth and innovation. 

This episode is perfect for business owners looking to streamline their operations, this conversation sheds light on creating job roles, managing expectations, and setting up successful administrative systems.

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from Steps2Success, where we help you navigate the challenges of running a children's activity organisation with practical advice and expert insights.

Created with pride by LoveAdmin

Edited with finesse by Making Digital Real

Transcript

James Brooker: 0:03

Hey everybody, this is James strategic business manager at love admin. And you're listening to the guided growth podcast, where we'll be taking you through the basics of growing your children's activity organisation with real insights and real actions you can apply to your organisation. So in today's episode, we're talking about how to get your admin set up, and your administrators working for you. We're with Lee Reed, owner and founder of swim school UK, who's taken a shipping container and industrial unit and turned it into a hugely successful we'll discuss how giving your administrators a clear job description, the structure can free up your mind to focus on growth. Lee, thanks for joining us. Great to have you back on the podcast again. For those of you who didn't hear Episode One, it'd be be great to get a little introduction on Swim School UK how it all started and where you are now. James,

Lee Read: 0:53

thank you. Yeah. So I've been swimming teaching since I was about 17 years old. I did camp America when I was 19. I sets set up my own swim school out when I graduated uni. I've been doing that now for more than 30 years. It's scary, and worked out of hotels and leisure club pools and the like. And just decided after COVID I needed my own thing. So that's when we came up with the idea of the shipping container. We will set Nicola and I sat having lunch one day, and she says what about this. And it was just one of those lovely moments before lunch, that sunshine, glass of wine, business idea, shebang, we're off. And yeah, I mean, annoying me COVID got in the way on the beginning. But yeah, and now we're up and running, we've got our own swimming pool, our own swim school or completely independent.

James Brooker: 1:43

Awesome. And I think that's that's such a cool, cool story. And it's such a great journey where your, your passion for the sport, has, has now created a swim school with 600 members and, and a really unique proposition. And I think that's, that's something that will be quite quite familiar for a lot of children's activity providers where you've got a passion for something, and you've built a business out of that passion. And now it's got to quite some scale, I have to say. So, talk to me now about the challenges that you now face we're keeping on on top of your admin. And so the main, the main problems you're facing at the moment, I suppose

Lee Read: 2:23

the initial challenge was I've always done everything myself. So letting go, anybody knows is hard to give somebody else some control over something is difficult. Because they're not going to do it like I did it, they're going to do it a bit their way. Which is a bit scary, but it's probably what's needed as well. Initially, Nicola was doing it for me. And it's hard when your partner and you're working together, and you work together and you go home together, it can work brilliantly. But it can also not be great as well. And that started to bring its own pressures in. And I, you know, she needed to go and do something else. And I needed to not have to, I hope she doesn't listen, keep putting up with her at home as well.

James Brooker: 3:15

I'm sure she'll forgive you. And

Lee Read: 3:18

yeah, and then then we got somebody in, but it's hard dealing with the number of emails and the types of emails, most people are lovely. But like I said previously, you know, for those 100 brilliant ones, it's that one not so nice one that plays on your mind. And as an administrator, it can be a bit different because they're only dealing with those questions and answers, they're not always seeing the people behind it. So for me, some of those harsh emails that you get occasionally are softened by knowing the person and knowing okay, I can tell I've set this but I know this person, so they probably don't mean quite as they're coming across. And then there's been able to place everything you know, and administrators got to learn how you kind of want the one answered even in the first place. Now, what's my tone was my way of doing things. How strict are my or how accommodating Am I in what I do, and what we've laid down as what the swim school is the structure of it, and then booking people into classes when we will follow in the old system anyway, that's hard because nobody is me. Who knows what that ability is and where that's gonna fit based on the personalities that are already in the group. So it's been hard finding somebody because then the next person, they didn't last very long either because it was too much for them. And now I've got somebody new and again and unfortunately is not worked out again right now. Because I chose the wrong person possibly or I convinced the wrong person to do the role. Because she she's into into social media and I want I saw how good she wasn't Are you sure you can do the admin as well, it's a different role, somebody's got to have a passion for what they do the same way I'm into the into teaching and delivering what we deliver each role, somebody has to be passionate about that role. Ideally, I think that for that to succeed,

James Brooker: 5:16

yeah, I think that is a really excellent point, I think there's, there's, there's two good points to pull out there. And certainly something for us to work through one is, is finding the person that is an admin specialist, that is quite happy to go through the processes. But in order for them to be able to do that, you've got to have the processes in the first place. And I, I think this is, a lot of where some of this can be quite overwhelming for a maturity as activity providers is that for a business, it's based on passion, when you get to a certain scale, passion has got to sit alongside process, and structure. And I think that particularly for the position, you're in now, Lee, where we've we've tried a couple of different admins, and it's not quite worked out. And actually, you know, you're you you personally hold the vast majority of the critical information around your swim school, and the people that that swim in it is how can we build a process that's going to enable someone to succeed in that role? Now, step one of that is getting the right person. And again, you can apply the same principles of process and structure to that. So do you have a job description of what does that job description look like? And first of all, are you clear in your mind? On what do I want that person to do each week for me? And that should be a list of no more than five or six tasks? One of them, and I'd imagine this will be top of everyone's list, we'll be answering the emails, because I think this, this whole principle, and this whole idea of being time poor, is driven by the sheer volume of emails that that we get coming in. So when when you've had admins in before Lee, would, would you say they had that process? Or structure? Or was it kind of more of a ad hoc type type relationship you had with them?

Lee Read: 7:12

I suppose on reflection, it was at the time, I thought, well, we'll sit together, we'll go through it. I'll answer them, you'll see how I like to answer them, and how to place people into groups. I think that works to some extent. But I need that process change, I've been able to, like you just said there is all those bits in my head, that I know how to jump from this to this to this, how do I get that out of my head and onto paper in some sort of systematic way? Yeah,

James Brooker: 7:46

and I think that is a real, real crucial element. And the best way I've always found of doing that is to strip it back right to the real base of what you do each week. And just having a simple and you know, this, this sounds ridiculously basic, but stick with it, have a Monday to Friday table. And each day write down the firstly do it retrospectively. So after each day, write down what you did, and put a rough time on how long you spent. So he might spend three hours teaching, you might spend an hour answering emails, you might spend an hour setting up your camps for the next holiday period, or something like that. It doesn't need to be precise, you don't need to get the stopwatch out, but just the rough guide. And then look at that and see all of those things, what do I have to do? And I've been can't possibly do that that needs to be made. And what on that list, could feasibly someone else do if they had the knowledge to do that. And from that point, that gives you a hit list of the things where you need to delegate knowledge. And then for each one, put it as a title on top of a blank piece of paper. And then write down everything there is to know but first, it's going to be probably a a bit of a mess, really of just random thoughts and ideas. And three years ago this happened, which means we now need to do like this now, and all of that type of stuff, write them all like that. Absolutely mess, just put your thoughts out onto the page, then leave it leave it alone for another week, and then come back to it. And I Okay. Or even give it give that nonsense to someone else who doesn't know the swims go and go, Okay, which bits out of this do you think are the most important for someone to know? Do that two or three times of working through those documents? And before you know it, you'll have built your very own processes. And I think that can quite often seem like quite an intimidating task to do. Because processes is big and scary and corporate and it's only what massive companies do and they have these teams To create structure and process and all this type of stuff, you can really boil that down to what you need to get out of it. And I think then when it comes to splitting up your job role, you can look at what you do in a week and go, how much of that is actually adding value to the swim school and achieving the dollar that I have this year? Because if it doesn't, and why are you doing it? Is it because it needs to be done? In which case, get someone to do it or follow the process we just talked through. But if it just doesn't need to be done, and you just do it, because you've always done it? Probably time to think about whether you should be doing it at all.

Lee Read: 10:37

Yeah, that helps you talk more talking too quickly there, James, for me to write it all down.

James Brooker: 10:45

I think certainly, just just take that that first element there. Yeah, yeah, create that week schedule, and just write down what you end of an evening, before you have your dinner. Write down what what what you've done each day. Because I think that, in and of itself will enable you to see where you're spending all of your time. If you haven't gotten, you know, we're looking at starting the administration process from scratch here, really, because your your current administrator is leaving us that to rewrite the job description for that role. based on actual expectations. I think a really important part of recruitment is being transparent and realistic. The worst thing you can do is give someone a vague job description. Because they're going to come in and not understand what what they're actually needing to do.

Lee Read: 11:36

I do think that's the trap I falling into is I've kind of said, well, here it is. Let's do a bit together, you take over, just just ask me if you're if you're stuck at all, and it's not enough. It's not enough. And the idea of getting all you're going to be impressed with with this James, I've actually found a way of talking into my phone and it turns into words. Now for it. For a technical world. This is pretty good. Perfect. So yeah, I like what you've just said, I can see now I can have the phone set up, get the addiction thing on, just go from there and roll those things out. And that's that's those pieces of headed paper then isn't it all sorted? Exactly.

James Brooker: 12:19

And it's it's all about, and I think the your thought process, there is spot on, it's about finding ways where you can get that information down. And for everyone that's not sitting with a piece of paper, and spending an hour writing it all out. It could be that as you're driving home, you put the dictaphone on your phone, and you just talk, because actually, that's the easiest way to get all that information out. And then actually college journeys are a surprisingly effective period for reflection. I know when I was working at David Lloyd, I would always find my drive to or from work almost my most productive time. Because I was alone with my thoughts. And I would use that time to build my plan for the day. So use that time to reflect on what you do and build that structure for your administrator. And I think from from then that creates a job description. That means you get the right person, the right person is going to be keen to learn the right person is going to be invested in the success of your organisation. And it's going to be sustainable. Worst thing in the world is having admins for five minutes and then never leaving again. It's

Lee Read: 13:29

been difficult that because as much as I like this idea that we're coming up with now, there's still a strong element of me, James, that is saying, You know what, I just got to do this myself, I just got up and do it myself. Because I'm fed up explaining it to more people and more people. That

James Brooker: 13:44

is a very easy trap to fall into. And in the short term I completely get why why you're thinking that way. Because it feels like such a waste of effort. When you bring someone in, you think that brilliant. They've interviewed really, really well. They feel like they get it, they're invested, then three months later, it's not for them. And then they decide to leave. And you've wasted all of that time when time isn't your friend anyway. Which is effectively wasted. You've got to do it over again. But in in in the long term. That's that's not going to be helpful, because and I know from our previous conversations that the focus is around growth and how can we actually take you from the point you've got to and in two years, three years double it gave Let's aim for 1000 members, its aim for two pools, there's over three pools. Let's be really ambitious to see how far we can take this and how I can support you on that journey. But if you're still doing all of your own admin, there's

Lee Read: 14:42

no time there's no time to focus on those exciting but

James Brooker: 14:46

exactly, that is the perfect phrase that you finished with that. As a business owner, you should be focusing on the exciting bits and you should have the trust of your team to deliver on the day to day fundamental And I think that that comes back to the point of get your recruitment, right, invest the time in picking the right person that isn't going to leave. Because in, in the long term, if you take it all in yourself, you won't get the growth that that you want, because you'll be stuck in the weeds, you, you won't be able to get out of that mirth of for 30 emails today, and three of them are moaning about this, and five of them are just asking, but they're open tomorrow and has half an hour of my time gone. Just telling people that the classes are actually on tomorrow. Well, that's not a value adding activity for a business owner. It really is.

Lee Read: 15:35

I suppose the other disappointing thing is though, I've I've paid what was more than the person was anticipating to get paid, you know, now me I'm, you know, I'm not solely motivated by money, but I don't think I'm alone in saying I want to make more, you know, I want to make as much as possible within the timeframe that I've got, and I don't understand that everybody else doesn't sort of follow that same process in their thinking. And maybe that's where I met, I need some sort of incentives, you know, be they find that, that's where I get a bit lost, if I'm honest, I feel like I've done the financial incentive thing, and it still hasn't quite worked. But I suppose you've hit the nail on the head in I wasn't structured enough.

James Brooker: 16:19

I think that's that's part of it. And I think also, there is an element where so your, your previous admin, as we, we discussed previously, was was brought in as a freelancer. So typically a self employed person, and you will always pay self employed people more than you will someone who is directly employed. And I would say that if you want someone that is sustainable, and going to stay with you for the long term, you've got to have them employed, because they need that job security. The reason why a freelancer will charge you more per hour is because they don't get all of the benefits that that come with, in full employment status, they don't get the sick pay, or the notice period, or any of that stuff. So they need to mitigate that. And that's completely understandable. I probably do the same if I was in that position. But I think the administrator is is such a key function within a business, that getting that individual right is is really, really important. And I would always look for them to be as invested in the business in that it's their job. They are directly employed, they have a contract. Yes, there is absolutely element of performance related pay and initiatives in there as well. And I would perhaps link that back to the overall size of the business, how can we get the business 300 members as an extra 2000 pounds a year in it for you, or something like that, can can certainly lead towards great greater success, I would say and you know, pay rates need need not be extortionate, there is certainly a market out there around the 15 to 20 hours a week spectrum. So there's definitely space for admins to be on 15 to 20 hours a week, and be able to do a good reliable job for you within that. So whilst I appreciate how tempting it is to go, saw that I just do it myself. It's certainly not something that I would encourage us something to enable growth in the future.

Lee Read: 18:19

Yeah, I'm with you. It's just, it's not like I want to do it, I do want to give it over to somebody else. But it's that it's feeling safe, that I'm not gonna have to keep picking up from where somebody else is like, because that's hard in itself, isn't it? Every time somebody joins you, there's a little bit of, you know, things get lost a little bit at the beginning. And then when you've got to pick up after somebody things do get a little bit lost in that part as well. And that brings with it its own little bit of sort of stress, doesn't it and worry about keeping clients customers happy. So yeah, it's you I know you're right. I know you're I imagine this is just the same as adopting the monthly system. I'm just in the same doubts in a slightly different format.

James Brooker: 19:04

Most definitely, you know, any, any changes is difficult and requires a kind of change in mindset with which is often not not straightforward to get to. I think the most important bit of advice I can give, when you're at the stage where actually you don't have an administrator and you're looking at getting one is spend more time than you think you need, recruiting someone and creating that process and that structure for them to fall into. So that when you put your job advert out, it's your enrol, that is guaranteed to be what it says on the tin. Because the easiest way to move somebody, particularly in an administrative role, isn't come in and realise that it's different to what they thought they were signing up to. I

Lee Read: 19:48

think that's what's happened. I think that's what's happened on all three occasions because all three people they had in that you know, Nicola, the other two Liana and Cecile that they've all been brilliant. And, and I just I feel like I missed something along the way, on reflection with how I have all what what I said it was and what it's turning out to be. And I suppose because I will die, I will do this, I will do that I'll do something else. And then that's, you know, that's the way I've got it all up and going and running, is by making sure to just cover everything. Other people don't want to jump around to the same extent, I will, I would, you know, I'm almost like ADHD on speed, when I'm getting going.

James Brooker: 20:34

And I think that is actually a really excellent point. And I think a lot of what holds people back is that in order to get from nothing to where you are, now you've had to do that, that is almost a necessary part of being that one man band, covering all the bases has been a jack of all trades, and getting the business off the ground. But once you get to the size and scale of that you're at now and I think quite a lot of others kind of get to. It's a case of going well, I can't there's too much for me to dart around now. And I think actually a really excellent point. And something that's really difficult to processes is the way that you work. Actually holding this back, though

Lee Read: 21:18

it most definitely is in this instance. Yeah. Because as much as I kind of unrealistically expect everybody to be like me. Straight away, we know it's a stupid statement. We would all be very good. I'm like, can you even? Yeah, it is unrealistic isn't. And I suppose that's where you know what I'm a little bit excited to go home tonight and start talking through some of these processes on the phone and getting it down. Because I can see that is the way forward here making this work.

James Brooker: 21:58

I think actually, the issue you're describing around your administrator is is almost it's actually a bigger issue than just getting a good administrator in and then doing sending some emails. It's actually around how is your business structured? How is the organisation structured?

Lee Read: 22:14

Well, it's all to Li centric at the moment isn't exactly that.

James Brooker: 22:17

It's it's ad hoc, it's, you know, it's a you do it. And that's fine to a point. But you know, the whole focus of the conversations and we have is around is around growth, how can we give you this stable platform with which we can look at getting you your second shipping container, the car, we want to really focus on on giving you that that time to branch out to those new activities of doing the scuba diving, get getting your own second facility, really focusing in on those, those specialist niches that are going to be the next step for Swim School UK. But in order to do that, I always give the analogy and it's slightly crude. But when you start out, it's kind of like a barnyard business. And everybody does a bit of everything to do whatever you are trying to do. And then as you grow, you can't operate a barnyard anymore. Because you can't deal with the demand. The business evolves and grows over time. And you get to a point where you have to start going, Okay, here's barnyard here's corporate, I need to be somewhere in that spectrum, in terms of how, how I operate. And I think you're now at that point where we need to start looking at you as a business owner, and go, How do I structure my week because I can't run around, trying to cover every base and keep everything in my head. Because actually, that's not sustainable to take you to that next level. So we now need to is it is an uncomfortable process, we need to challenge the way you work. Because if we can align the way you work to a structure to a process to this is what I focus on, that's naturally going to leave you then with a little column next to it of this is what my administrator, my right hand person is going to do for me. Once you've got those two things aligned, and your administrator is working for someone who evidently has got a structure to their working week, they know what they do. And then the administrator knows what's their job within that you're starting to create that platform, which then enables you to go out and do all of that stuff. Because I think as you said at the start of the podcast, your time poor time is not your friend. So we need to find ways to make that more efficient without we're getting to the point where it's sort of Amazon esque. Because, you know, that's probably our level of sort of process driven nature that doesn't really align with your providing children's activities. So it's finding your place in that I think, yeah, yeah, I can see that. I can see that. So you know, it's just starting with that, that process just to kind of recap on the steps that I thing you should take from, from here on out, is to look at what you do in a week. So like you said, transcribing that just talking out loud, getting that all written down on a page, and then boil that down to the exact tasks. And it's probably five or six, maybe seven or eight a day that that you do in the rough amount of time you spend on them. And once you've done that for a couple of weeks, you'll get an idea on the consistencies within that list. And there'll be a bit of seasonal change. So you kind of want to build a bit of a buffer for that. But then once you've got that, and then you take the bits out of it that aren't inherently something that you need to do, you need to be really self critical. At that point, it's very easy just to go. I used all of it. Yeah, don't exercise over it, steal all of it, that's the solution is not

Lee Read: 25:50

getting started. And up. And running is a slightly egotistical thing in the first place, isn't it? Because I know it's all me. And I've got to make sure to do it all. So I can do it or to let go of that to still explore, to let go of the bits, it's hard to let go of those bits.

James Brooker: 26:07

I think particularly when you've built something from the ground up, letting go of any of it is your baby, then today, it is an extension of your family, you spend more time doing it than you do anything else. And you've built it from absolutely nothing to what it is now. So relinquishing that control, let me correct that. Actually, I don't I don't see it as relinquishing control. If you do it, right. It's controlling things in a different way. And actually, that's the way that I would encourage you to look at it is not going I'm giving away control to somebody else. It's going How can I create a system of working for me and my team, where I still maintain the same level of control? This is making an have to do the same level of work?

Lee Read: 26:53

Yes, this is making sense. And it is about that. And that's where the clarity of what somebody else is going to come in? And do I see what you're telling me creating that clarity of what somebody else is going to do means I feel safe, that they know what they're doing. Because I've already structured it and put it there for them. Exactly

James Brooker: 27:14

that. And I think there's there's an element and you know, out of context this, this sounds somewhat draconian, but certainly to begin with, for someone coming in, and an in an administrative role. They don't really want to be having too much independent thought. They want a set list of processes.

Lee Read: 27:34

You know what you've just said, there is what I found hard to understand, how can somebody not see? Well, you need to adapt over here. Now. Now you need to jump over there to get that bit. All right now, it all fits together.

James Brooker: 27:47

That for me, is when you've got an administrator that's been with you for five years or four years and been with you on the journey. You're on the line when the actual core. So imagine the place you were at, when you first started the core fundamentals, you were still figuring out and still learning, you're now at a point where all of those are second nature, it's almost as comfortable as breathing or probably swimming to you. When you don't have to think about it, you just do it. Someone new coming in, they've got to think about every single little bit they've got to do

Lee Read: 28:18

just like me getting used to the system, the love admin system for the first time, exactly

James Brooker: 28:23

the same as when when you make any change, you've got to relearn those fundamentals again, and when starting a new job is inherently scary. I would say regardless of what job that is, because it's new, and you don't you know roughly what you've got to do, but you don't know how to actually don't do it. So you've got to facilitate that, in order to stop them from leaving within the first six months. Whereas if you jump to Okay, here's all the fundamentals. But also, let's go do this. Let's do this. What about this? What about this? What about this, their head is just gonna go Oh, my God, I don't even know where to start. And now he wants my thoughts. And I don't have any thoughts because I don't know what I'm doing. And this is already scary. This isn't

Lee Read: 29:03

what I thought it was you just encapsulated there exactly what I do.

James Brooker: 29:09

I don't think that's a unique issue, that you've stumbled across that I think that is quite a common thing because

Lee Read: 29:16

I need to operate like that. But I can't have the expectation that anybody else should operate like that.

James Brooker: 29:22

Exactly. It's it's all about people working to their strengths and you want it administrator to be calm, structured, and diligent. And if you can get someone that is those three things, probably with a little sprinkle of reliability on top of it, then that gives you that that platform and it's around having people that are complementary to yourself. Now, one of the worst mistakes any business can make is hiring people based on their similarity to you. You miss out on all the skills that you aren't particularly strong in and your skill set as a business owner is about being passionate by having no ng about working super, super hard and connecting with your customers. And that enables you to grow a business. But when you get to a scale of having 600 members like like you do now and running, you know, sort of 50 classes a week or something, now you need a different skill set, and being able to acknowledge that you don't possess those skills, and you don't have the time to learn those skills. Actually, you shouldn't have shouldn't need to have those skills is a really important mental step. And I think so much of what you're describing, is down to your mindset, and and how you approach the issue and how you approach the business overall for the next stage of growth, aside from just getting an admin in, who can answer some good emails? Yeah, yeah, it's about really getting back to that, to that root cause. And I think once you can do that, you, suddenly everything will just start slowly to slot into place, you'll find that your working week is more structured, and you're not answering emails at 11 o'clock at night, which inherently is the wrong thing to be doing. And I'm sure your partner would agree with me on that one. And then suddenly, you'll see, you can focus on those things that really make a difference to the overall growth of the business. And to be honest, at the scale you right now, you should always be thinking three months ahead.

Lee Read: 31:15

See, I've probably got about four people who applied last time for the admin role. And I'm thinking it might be useful if I can arrange appointments with them, that would fit for you to maybe be there as well. Because I don't know that I can always I think like sort of something you said, where I don't want to pick somebody like me,

James Brooker: 31:36

I think certainly having someone to coach you on, I would perhaps describe it as subjective interviewing would be a good thing. But I also think it's really important for you to find your confidence in doing solo, as well, and, and being able to pick up that pulling out of it into what are their character traits? What do they actually enjoy? And what are they just saying because they want a job. And that's a really crucial difference, because people will say, a broad variety of things, if it means they get a job at the end of it, particularly if they're, if the actual job description is a bit vague and woolly, because they don't quite know what they're getting themselves into, they need money because they need to live, they've applied to the job, because the pay rate looks pretty good, and the hours kind of works for their life. But actually, neither party really knows what they want to get out of that situation, from interview point of view as the interviewer going in with a really clear list of these the character traits that I'm looking for. And I don't include experience as one of those character traits. Because experience can actually count against you, in some cases, because experience means that someone's already got a fixed way that they like to do something. Whereas if you can get someone in who's got the right character traits of being religiously diligent, very reliable, great attention to detail, but it's never been an administrator before, but likes to challenge likes the job likes with your organisation, they're going to be far better at working in the way that you want them to working with you, learning from you than someone who's been an administrator for 30 years and goes nope, needs to be like this. Because actually, you you want to find that blend of structural change in getting someone with different a different skill set to yourself. Yeah, but getting someone who you can actually work with, and get aligned into the culture and the values of swim school UK. So it's, it's it's finding that that middle ground I, I would say but but certainly the starting point is making sure that your job description, what you actually want these people to do, is is very, very clear, then that makes the interview process easier, because they know what the what they're letting themselves in for, then get get your list. What character traits, what type of person am I looking for? And is this person that type of person that all rings true? And I think all of that will help you get the right, right person. But the one thing I would insist more than anything else, do the pre work before you do the interviews, I can see the importance because because if you're still working in the same way, you're going to get the same result every single time. Because you're going to continue working as if you don't have an admin that you can trust. When you've got an admin in there, who is craving your trust,

Lee Read: 34:31

to go right points. So things will

James Brooker: 34:33

never change until the entire setup changes I would say. See, I think that that for me, encapsulates really the key issue. And I think a lot of organisations will face faces similar issue to that. So hopefully that's been useful in kind of guiding your next next steps there. And I'm really excited to see how how we can implement that and, you know, I'll come up My very own scuba diving lesson once you get it set up once your admin situations are all running smoothly as well,

Lee Read: 35:06

sounds fantastic. Thank you, James.

James Brooker: 35:08

Amazing. Well, thank you very much, you're timely been great to discuss that with you for what is quite a difficult a difficult thing to work through because actually involves changing the way you work and really getting to the root cause rather than just kind of looking at why is my admin not working for me. Hope you enjoyed the episode. And we look forward to you joining us next time. Make sure you subscribe to our step to success podcasts to get more guided growth tips each month, and be sure to check out live admin.com/step to success for more information about our one to one growth Consultation Service, and how you can get involved. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.