22 - Gabi Maddocks of The Playing Space - Gabi’s Journey from Classroom to Digital Training

Join James, the strategic business manager at LoveAdmin, in this insightful episode of the Guided Growth Podcast as he reconnects with Gabi from The Playing Space. 

Dive into their engaging discussion on Gabi’s transformative journey since their last talk nearly a year ago. 

Discover how Gabi has adapted her teacher training from in-person workshops to a thriving digital platform, harnessing the power of online subscriptions to enhance accessibility and engagement. 

Learn about the challenges and triumphs of shifting to digital platforms, the innovative use of Zoom workshops, and the strategic shift from group sessions to personalised content delivery. 

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from Steps2Success, where we help you navigate the challenges of running a children's activity organisation with practical advice and expert insights.

Created with pride by LoveAdmin

Edited with finesse by Making Digital Real

Transcript

Hey everybody, this is James, strategic business manager at Love Admin, and you're listening to the Guided Growth Podcast, where we'll be taking you through the basics of growing your activity organisation with real insights and real actions you can apply to your organisation. Welcome to episode 21 of Step2Success, giving you the ideas and inspiration to take your children's activity business to the next level. This week, I'm with Gabi from The Playing Space, reviewing how she's got on since our last podcast just under a year ago, and what the next steps are to move her to the next level. 

Gabi, thanks for joining us. How's everything been going? Pretty well, thank you, James. All running smoothly. 

We're about to have our big festival this weekend, so I'm looking forward to spending about 14 hours in a theatre with 150 children. I can see no downsides to that whatsoever. So, in our last podcast, which feels like a lifetime ago now, but it was sort of June time last year, we spoke a little bit around the teacher training that you wanted to bring in to open up new markets, and also looking at your classes and how you can sort of improve your capacity there. 

How have you found that in the time since we spoke about it? Do you think everything we spoke about was successful? Were you able to implement a lot of the things that we discussed? So, the teacher training actually, the way I'm doing it has changed quite a lot. I used to run group training sessions focusing on particular areas of the Lambda exam syllabus, and so I would try and gather, you know, between 10 and 15 people together, either in person, which was always so lovely, or on Zoom, and that was, you know, for that one day, it was a very sort of well-paid event, but they would happen maybe six times a year. What I'm trying to do now is, every time I get teacher training inquiries, is to guide people towards my sub-stack as a starting point, because when I started the sub-stack, I thought, well, if I get 10 paid subscribers, that would be fantastic. 

I've now got 126 paid subscribers who are all paying a small amount every month, which is obviously, you know, tax-deductible for them as well, so that means it's probably the cost of a cup of coffee per month for them each, but you put 100 of those together, and it means that I can justify spending quite a lot of time on content. We have monthly meet-ups as well on Zoom, which are completely free for subscribers, and occasionally, I'll do paid workshops as well that are free for subscribers that other people can then join as well for a certain amount of money, and what it means is that, over the course of the year, I'm actually making more than doing those odd group training days. I still offer one-to-one consultations, but I've moved away from doing those big kind of group training days.

It just felt harder to, I don't know, fill those spaces. I did do a few, I recorded them, and I can still obviously sell those recordings as well, so it feels like there are three teacher training. There's the sub-stack, which is where I'm kind of trying to push everyone towards, there's one-to-one consultations, and then people can also purchase the videos.

And do you think that sort of changed as a result of the bits we spoke about? Did it help getting a bit more clarity on how to do that and really give it a good push as an extra element to the kind of standard classes you run for children? I think as a result of our conversation in June, I ran those few training days, and that was a really useful thing to do. The people who came enjoyed it, but the numbers were low. I don't know where I would have advertised other than on the Lambda Teachers Facebook group. 

It's possible that I could have more about it on my website, but even though the numbers were low, it still enabled me to make those recordings, so I definitely would do more of those, because even if you get four or five people, you can record the session if it's on Zoom, and I always do one live session and one Zoom session, so people, if they live locally, they can come here to the studio, where I would charge a bit more because I'll include some refreshments and things like that, or they can do it on Zoom, and then I can record the Zoom session, and then I've got that always to use. I don't need to keep doing those Zoom sessions over and over again, but there are always more subjects that I can do, so I can focus on other particular areas. I think the fact that you are now able to focus on that more is a really good opportunity to open your eyes to what new revenue streams can look like, and once you start down that avenue, like we did with getting those first sessions up and running, we were able to then broaden that out to cover quite a lot of stuff without a huge amount of additional effort with what you described there, with the recordings and things like that, so it's sort of, once you go down a path, looking at all of the different options away from that path and really maxing out the opportunity in that space, and it sounds like that's been a real success for you. 

Yeah, and what's great is those recordings are in my Love Admin shop, so every now and again I'll just get a little email saying, you know, there's money in your PayPal account, someone's bought a recording, and then it's quite easy for me to then just send them what they need, the link that they need and the resources that they need to access that video. The only thing is sometimes people expect it to happen straight away, so they'll buy it on a Friday evening, and then on Saturday morning I'll get a message saying I bought this thing, but I've not received anything. I just have to reply and say I'll send it, and I'm in the office on Monday, because often when you buy an online course, you expect to have it available straight away, but it's a minor thing. 

And what would you say you'd do differently? So if we wound back the plot to June last year, and you were going to have another crack at the things that you did, what would you not do, and what would you do differently? I suppose the only thing I might do differently is just stick to Zoom and not do the live sessions, but even though everyone's got so used to doing things on Zoom now, and even if people used to get on planes to come to my training sessions back before the pandemic, you know, people would drive from Cornwall to come up and spend the day in London. They'd stay in a hotel, and they'd come to an all-day training session or even a whole weekend training session. That just doesn't happen anymore. 

If they've got the option to do it online, they will always take that option, and I'd get it. Because I live in London, I'm so London-centric, you know, the thought of like, you know, traveling to Edinburgh for a training course. I know that's a sort of a London mindset, and people often who live outside in London don't have that. 

So I suppose I would just stick to Zoom, maybe, and funnel everyone into the Zoom training. But that feels a shame, because even if the numbers are low on the live training, it's really nice just to have that person-to-person contact. Yeah, I think there's perhaps room for both. 

So we attended the Ministry of Children's Activities and Providers conference just in the last week, and they had some interesting talks from some of the guys there, where they've done studies onto more of the data side behind the children's activity economy, which, by the way, is now valued, I think, at £17.7 billion a year in total. So there's a huge amount to go after. But one of the things they mentioned, and I think it's true of what you're describing here as well, is almost a two-tier economy approaching, where the in-person sessions are almost like your premium offering, or certainly should be your premium offering. 

So the price point is that much higher. You obviously get the refreshments, the lunch, and you get to do it in person, which is naturally going to be a more immersive experience. But then you've got the other tier, where for the people that are more price conscious, which is perhaps more reasonably priced, it's more accessible, it's therefore easier for you as the host to run and organise, because you can sit there in your office and do it and reach out to people on a much broader geographical scale. 

So I think, certainly from what I heard yesterday, and kind of listening to your feedback as well, it feels like that there is room for the two, but you've got to sort of treat them as two separate things and position them differently. So the in-person training should feel premium, and it can have a premium price point to go with it, because actually there is a market, quite a big market of people, where the cost of living crisis and that type of stuff hasn't affected them, where they do have disposable income for those types of activities, and actually the increased price is reassuring for them. They're looking for something that is slightly more expensive, because that's a perceived indication of the quality of the training they're going to receive. 

So I certainly think there's room there to do both. Where you were talking about the lower numbers of people in your in-person sessions, again, I would see that leading into it being a more premium experience and actually capping it at a lower point, and only having a handful of people in there at a time, really being able to go to town on the training, because it is a really small group, almost exclusive opportunity to do it. So I think that perhaps could be a good avenue to really exploit further. 

It feels like it's kind of naturally happened that way anyway, to a degree, but I do wonder whether there's more you can push in that direction, be perhaps even braver still with maybe even the pricing for your in-person sessions and make them feel sort of really exclusive and really premium. Yeah, there's a lovely environment here in our studio, so it can feel like, as you say, a sort of exclusive experience. Yeah, I think you've got everything going for you to be able to achieve that, and having been to come and see you myself, it's a fantastic setting you've got there to do some really cool stuff, and I think you can definitely make the most of that with your teacher training elements. 

So moving away from that piece, it feels like that's doing pretty well, and actually there's a good couple of opportunities that feel quite natural to move into, really. In terms of your main provision, the children's classes, how have you found that progressing over the last eight months, ten months? Pretty good. The schools are going well, numbers increasing in the schools that we're already in. 

We've added another primary school, which is fantastic. They approached us, and in September we're going into a new secondary school to deliver the lambda exam syllabus, so that's great. We've had loads of new inquiries for our studio classes, mainly from slightly older children, and what's interesting is that the younger ones, we've had some inquiries recently from year one, two, three children, so five, six, seven-year-olds, but they've wanted private classes rather than group classes, and I'm desperately trying to set up a new introductory drama class for children in reception up to year two or three. 

I had this brilliant idea that I was going to go to the local primary school and offer to do school pick-ups. I thought that would be so great for parents, that a couple of our teachers would go with our high-vis vests, collect the children from school at quarter past three, bring them back to the studio for snacks and playtime until four o'clock, and then run the drama class from four till five, at which point, obviously, children could be brought by their parents from other schools as well, but I thought that's often a bit of a sticking point for parents who are working, is that they have to pick their child up from school at quarter past three, then hang out for 45 minutes before the after-school activity begins, and that's why in-school activities might be so much more appealing, like after-school clubs and so on, so I thought this is brilliant. I made printed flyers, paid for an advert in the Christmas fair brochure, paid for the flyers to go in every book bag of every child in reception to year two. 

We got maybe six inquiries about it. We then, on top of all that, decided to run a free trial class in January, not with a school pick-up, but just for those six people, we said we'll run a free trial class because they were not signing up. We thought we'll do a free trial class. 

Out of that free trial class, one of them loved it, but had swimming on that day and couldn't move it. I think a couple of them didn't turn up, and so we ended up with three who were like, yeah, we'd love to do it, and obviously that's just not enough to run the class. I think if I'd had five, I would have gone for it because our maximum group size is 12, so five is almost half full, and actually it would have covered costs, and I knew that once it's off the ground, it would start to grow, so it was really disappointing, if I'm honest. 

We did actually get two new students because two of them came on a different day and didn't do the whole school pick-up thing, so it wasn't a total bust, and the one who had swimming on that day really wanted to come and is still hoping at some point in the future to move her swimming class, so you never know. It may still happen, but we again, for the beginning of the summer term, thought, well, let's give it another try, so I reached out to everybody that had made any suggestions, plus any new inquiries that had come in since then. We were trying to push them to that Tuesday four o'clock introductory drama class, and I didn't get a single reply, so it's not going to happen yet. 

I still think, because we've got to get the young children in, because there's a drop-off at GCSE and A-level, even though our 15, 16-year-old students who have been with us since they were five or six years old, but we've got to get those new five and six-year-olds in, so that's what I'm struggling with at the moment. Yeah, I think that's a really common problem, and I know we've spoken quite a bit on sort of, I guess you call it a bit of almost cohort analysis, and looking at your classes in the system and kind of analysing them based on the fill by age, and you're now sort of seeing the bulge of people progressing through, but there's not the backfill to then take the spaces as they move up. So I think that's building that pipeline, that sort of future pipeline of people who are then going to stay with you, is really, really crucial, and I know like Keris Keneally and those who are experts in reaching out to schools and nurseries will often sort of say similar things around building that pipeline, and I wonder whether there's an opportunity, obviously you've done the sort of commercial aspect of going into schools where you give them some money and they put a leaflet in the book bag, but whether there's an opportunity to actually try and partner with the school a little bit more and really get the school sort of selling you on your behalf, rather than it being a purely commercial relationship of, here's some money, please put a leaflet in book bag, thanks very much, which clearly has not worked in the way that you would have hoped it to, which would have been an overwhelming avalanche of people screaming to join the playing space. 

Perhaps there's a sort of more nuanced way of doing it, which may be a little bit slower to begin with, but might give you a bit more authenticity. So things like going into the school and offering to give them something, so schools are always looking for something to like liven up the curriculum in PE lessons, to have something different, or as part of a PSHE lesson, or as some form of additional thing within the curriculum, particularly at primary school. And if you're able to offer a very introductory, basic sort of 45-minute drama session that you would come in and run for free in the school, so the school are getting something out of it, they feel like it's sort of a virtuous activity, but then in return they start to sort know who you are, the children know who you are, the school might send out a letter saying this is coming up, your child's going to be doing this with these guys in the playing space, it's a completely free session. 

It's basically like forcing people into a free taster session, and you're going to have like 30 or 40 people in that session, and they're already there, they're already sat in that group, and you're just going to turn up and do it. And I think schools will be really, really interested in that opportunity, because you're not forcing anybody to sign up, you're not sort of ramming it down people's throats, but you're giving people that taste of what it is. So even things like merchandise, so not even as big as a water bottle or anything that extensive, even something like a pin badge or a wristband that's got your logo on that says I've completed a playing space taster or something like that, to then give out to all of those kids who've completed that, starts to link that activity with you as a playing space, so then go home and tell their mum or dad or grandma or granddad that they had this really cool thing, and let me show you this routine that I've done, this comedy sketch that I've done, and all of a sudden drama starts to look and feel differently. 

Perhaps for some people, drama schools have a reputation for something that doesn't align, but actually there's a huge breadth of things that are covered within a drama-based setting that is actually going to be applicable and beneficial to a great number of children. So I would certainly see that as a good first place to start. And it's the idea that your website is on the merch somewhere, and that you would say to the children, you know, we run drama classes every week just around the corner, so if you've enjoyed the session today, or is that too obvious? I don't think it's too obvious. 

I think you'd need to word it in such a way that it's more like, if you want to come and join us doing this every week, then let your mum and dad know that we've got classes just around the corner, and if they want to know more, then this poster is going to be put up behind reception where they can book in, or they can have a look on their phone if they type in the playing space, then they'll see all about us. You kind of make it sort of a kid-friendly message, and then where you've got your booking site for people to be able to book in that's really straightforward and easy, really you just want to get people typing the playing space into Google. That's the key jump you need to make. 

You need to get people interested enough to type the playing space into Google, then they'll go to your website, you've got a really nice website that links to your booking site, which is really straightforward to then get from finding a class you want to paying for and being signed up, and then they're in, and they're converted as a customer. So I think I would see those as your two crucial bits. How can I get in front of people and get them knowing my name, knowing who I am as an organisation, in a positive light, and then the second step is how can I then convert that child's enthusiasm for joining into the parent committing to Google the playing space, and then it's how easy is my new customer journey in converting them into a paid customer, because if they're interested enough to Google a playing space, unless you're charging a million pounds an hour, you should be able to convert them with a reasonably high success rate, because most of the drop-offs you'll see are from people who have long and complicated joining processes, which I've always called the new customer journey.

If that is long or difficult or confusing in any way, your drop-off falls off a cliff, it becomes really quite significant. If that journey is nice and smooth and makes sense, and they can get what they need within about a minute or two of Googling it, that's the time frame you want, and I'd always encourage going in and testing it. If I'm a parent and I'm Googling the playing space, how long does it take me from that first, the very first Google to pay for a class, to be in the class, and it should be no longer than a minute, minute and a half, I would say. 

Okay, really, James, that's our next project. That can be our next project, absolutely, because I think, particularly if you're a parent, I'm not one, but I know of them, and I was parented, and I know time is very much the enemy. There is never enough time to do anything, so you don't want them to have to spend 10 minutes trying to get their child signed up for a drama lesson, because they've got about another 15 things to do in that 10 minute time period, so they just won't do it, and then as soon as they've lost that initial interest, as soon as their child's come home from school and spoken about it once, if they don't act on it then, your chances of then getting them to sign up become infinitely harder. 

But I think what's also interesting, and I know we've spoken previously about the sort of competitiveness of going directly into schools, particularly where schools are now starting to provide their own drama provisions on site with sort of lander assessments and things like that, is what other routes you can take to actually get to that child and get them infused. So we came up with a bit of a rogue idea, and I don't really know how we came around to it, around going to scout groups and cub groups and brownies and guides and those types of activities, because actually that type of organisation is all progress related and it's much more holistic. It kind of mirrors school to a certain degree, because there are certain things within a scout group that they like to get them to do, and achieve badges and things like that. 

And one of them, I think we looked up, one was an entertainer badge, there are performer badges at the different age groups, but all of them seem to align quite nicely with some of the age groups that you're looking to target. So the cubs is six to eight year olds, so actually that's quite a nice target market to go into. And I know when we looked at it, I think there was, what was there, about five or six scout groups in your local area, within about three miles of where you guys are based. 

So if you were to go in and say, we will run this badge for all of the people in your scout group, and scout groups normally will have 20, 30 children I would say. And they're often oversubscribed. I remember trying to get my kids into a scout group, and you had to join a long waiting list.

Yeah, and I think post-COVID, they're having a bit of a rebirth almost. I was a scout myself as a child, and it was always incredibly popular. And the children like to have that sense of achievement of getting the badge, and getting them, I think they still have the actual cloth badges, and you have to sew it onto your sleeve, and then you always have that one kid that would have about 30 of them up and down his arm. 

But that's a reason for why people join that organisation and take part in those activities. And the people who run scout groups are just volunteers, they're normally parents. They will absolutely jump at the chance if someone comes in with actual expertise and actual experience. 

So I can take your entire troop through their presenter badge in a couple of sessions. Yeah, and then do the things that they just can't do, because they're volunteers. And they're great at running games and activities and organising things and that type of stuff, but they're not experts in all of the things that they're expected to do and try and promote with the children. 

So they will jump at the chance. And yes, it is another free activity that you're giving away. But actually, if you were to do it in two sessions, let's say it's three hours of your time, but you're accessing 30 children who are all going to come away with a badge that they know they've got through the playing space.

And again, let's say that kid comes home from scouts and says, oh, we had the playing space in to do this badge. Are you then just, and they were, again, are you just kind of hoping that the parents will Google the playing space? Are you suggesting to the children, if you want to do more drama, tell your parents to look us up? We're very local. Again, you know, you don't want the that you're trying to take away the.

No, and I think you should always position it as a complimentary activity. Yeah. If you want to do more aside from what we've done here, then here is this option. 

And again, going back. Helps you develop all the skills that you need to get other badges that you might want to get from your scout group. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

And I see it as kind of a sort of community collaboration between two local organisations trying to achieve very similar things, which is to get children doing stuff. Basically, that's, that's, that's the ultimate. A computer games.

Yeah, exactly. Get getting them out, getting them in, interacting with other people, learning, learning life skills, really. And I think with, with the way the badges are set up as well, they are quite, they're broad because within scouts, you do get a broad range of people attending. 

So again, similar to with the school pace, you might get someone who thinks, Oh, drama school. No, because they might have a stereotype to them. But actually, if you go in and do run an entertainer badge, where you teach them some of the fundamentals of comedic acting or something like that, it's still drama, but it doesn't feel like it because they're just making jokes. 

Yeah. And that type of thing. But you've accessed that child, you've, you've got into their, their sort of thought as, Oh, this is really cool. 

I'm really enjoying this. And then you can get them into a class. And I think going back to something else you mentioned at the beginning around that sort of school pickup thing, where it's based around a Tuesday 4pm class, I would almost advise removing that element, leave it, leave your timetable as it is, but get people excited. 

So they then just go and find the class they want. Because if you're advertising a Tuesday 4pm class, you might love the playing space. Similar with the child that had the swimming lesson at the same time. 

She's presented with Tuesday at 4pm. She can't do Tuesday at 4pm. She loves it, but she can't do Tuesday at 4pm. 

So that's it, it's dead. It's gone. And the chance of winning that person back is now more difficult because the initial hit of momentum has now left. 

Whereas if you're able to present yourself as an organisation, here's our timetable, have a look, see what you think, we operate six days a week, your chances of converting are much much greater, I would say. So I think that's certainly a sort of new angle to go after, and one that I think people don't really think about. I think Scouts itself has got a reputation and a stereotype, but actually I do think there's loads of opportunities for drama schools and other people in the sector to really take advantage of it.

Again, going back to the ICAP survey that I think came out, again was released to their conference this week, they looked at the most common ways in which a parent found out about the organisation that their child then joined. So they looked at the routes that customers took in joining these activity providers, but then they also compared that to what the activity providers themselves thought were the main routes of new customers joining. And there's a massive discrepancy between the two, and actually over 50% of new people joining children's activity providers came purely through word of mouth, and actually only I think 1% came through paid ads and leaflets and things. 

Whereas 20% of children's activity providers thought that their most popular route for new customers was through paid ads. Well, I'm definitely one step ahead there, because I know that it comes from word of mouth. The flyering that I did for that new class was literally the first time I paid for any kind of marketing or publicity for ages.

It's one of those things that I will occasionally try a Facebook ad or an ad in a family's magazine or something like that. And every time I do it, I'm so disappointed at the response. But we had one inquiry from a parent a couple of weeks ago who had two children, and she hasn't even signed up yet. 

Her kids are starting after Easter. We have since had two other parents who have been recommended to us from her just because she really loved the phone conversation that we had with her. And she immediately told two of her friends about it. 

So we now have six children signing up after Easter. So I know that word of mouth is the way to do it. But I think that, as you say, our bulge has got so far up the ages, which is great in a way. 

It means good student retention. And we love teaching older kids. But it does mean that we're not getting that, you know, there are fewer younger siblings, I think, or we're just not getting that, the new kids coming in for some reason. 

And the other problem with that is it's harder to fill holiday clubs, because it's really those four, five, six-year-olds that are such a good market for holiday clubs. So when we used to have eight introductory classes running, so that's 80 students of that age running every week, we would sell out our holiday clubs within 48 hours. Whereas now, we have one of those classes running each week. 

Our student numbers haven't changed. Our student numbers are pretty much the same. But we're just, you know, shifting up the ages. 

So now it's much harder to sell our holiday clubs as well. Yeah, I think it's always really important to sort of identify that, as you have done, and identify what your kind of tracks are in terms of your main revenue streams, and then building that pipeline so you can then fill the rest of your activities. Because what will happen if you don't sort of take action, as you are now doing, is that bulge will continue to move until it that drop-off point around GCSEs and A-levels, where naturally you do see more attrition, more people leaving. 

But you won't have the backfill from the younger age groups to keep that going, so it'll all just sort of fall off a bit of a cliff eventually. It'll all kind of come off the end of the conveyor belt, and there'll be nothing else on there to keep it going. So it's really, really important to make sure that when you have age-based classes, always looking kind of a year ahead. 

Okay, well, who are the children that are going to be four next year, or in six months' time? What are they doing now? And how can I get them in a position so that when they become four, which is when my first class starts, that they're going to jump at the chance, or even sign up in advance? It's true. We do sometimes get enquiries from parents whose children are three or just four years old, and we have to say, they're too young for us at the moment, but let us know as soon as they start reception or year one, and we'll see where we are then. And something that we have started doing, which seems so obvious, and I cannot believe that we didn't do this until now, is we now are keeping track of all of the enquiries we've had, and going back to those people every so often to say, oh, do you remember you wanted to come on a Thursday, but it was full? Well, now we've got a space on a Thursday. 

And we're just keeping a really clear record of every conversation we've had with that parent. And at a certain point, we will kind of reg them out and say, no, they are really not interested. They've moved to Australia.

They're not going to sign up. But I can't believe we weren't doing that until quite recently. Yeah, I think having a level of structure and process, and I know we've spoken about it before, and I've spoken about it in previous episodes, but the element of structure and process around that type of stuff really gives you a level of diligence that means you don't miss stuff. 

And then when you can translate that into, okay, I know this person was interested, well, I can just send them a link to that specific class they were interested in that now has a space in it. And within a minute, they can be signed up to it if they're still interested, is almost like the bolt on to that. So you need the structure and the processes.

But then you need the ease of actually converting those people into paid customers at will, you need to be able to just switch it on and go, oh, you wanted that class a few months ago, there you go, you can now sign up to it straight away. At no point should there be that kind of friction in terms of actually getting someone from being interested to being over the line and kind of committed in into joining. Well, it's been a great conversation. 

We've chatted away endlessly, but hopefully there's some gems in there for you to take away for the next year to really take take the playing space to the next level. If you've enjoyed listening to Gabi and I chatting away, then take a look at our other step success podcast episodes. We've got blog content online at loveadmin.com/step2success and keep an eye out for our next podcast in a month's time.

Thank you very much. Bye bye.